[Rebroadcast] Japan’s got ghosts – The Japan Times

This week on Deep Dive Shaun McKenna and Dave Cortez focus on just a few horror films earlier than “Uncanny Japan” podcast host Thersa Matsuura tells a traditional Japanese ghost story.

Hosted by Shaun McKenna and produced by Dave Cortez.

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Shaun McKenna: Articles | X | Instagram

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Shaun McKenna 00:09

Welcome to Deep Dive from The Japan Occasions. I am Shaun McKenna. It is spooky season, and whereas we’re nonetheless off on a brief break, we thought we might tide you over with a rebroadcast of an episode from October of 2020, that includes Thersa Matsuura, who hosts the “Uncanny Japan” podcast. Now, we could also be somewhat early for Halloween however Thersa’s library of ghost tales and supernatural folks tales is so plentiful that we thought we would go forward and introduce you to her podcast sooner slightly than later so you may spook up sufficiently over the subsequent two weeks. And hey, from the time of recording tomorrow is Friday the thirteenth, so, that sort of works. Earlier than we get into the dialog between Thersa and former Deep Dive host Oscar Boyd, nonetheless, producer Dave Cortez goes to hitch me to debate just a few Halloween-themed tales we discovered from The Japan Occasions archives that we predict are particular should reads main as much as the massive evening on Oct. 31.

Dave Cortez, welcome again to the mic. We do not get to listen to from you a lot but it surely’s good to have you ever.

Dave Cortez 01:16

Hey Shaun, it is good to be on this facet of the mic once more.

Shaun McKenna 01:18

So are you a Halloween man?

Dave Cortez 01:20

You realize, I wish to get spooked out generally, however I used to be by no means actually in the entire dressing up factor. What about you?

Shaun McKenna 01:25

OK, no, it is my favourite vacation of the yr.

Dave Cortez 01:27

Yeah, I don’t even know why I requested.

Shaun McKenna 01:29

I’ve gone as Sherlock Holmes, I’ve acquired because the man from “Clockwork Orange.” Once I was a child, I went as a three-headed clown, yeah, I actually prefer it.

Dave Cortez 01:37

You realize, it is bizarre, I bear in mind doing a cowboy for like 4 years in a row, that is how inventive I used to be.

Shaun McKenna 01:43

Yeah, you follow what works. However I believe that, you recognize, apart from the evening itself, I truly actually just like the construct as much as Halloween. I believe you solely get that with one different vacation and that is Christmas, actually. You realize, like, you begin to really feel Christmas perhaps a month earlier than it truly occurs. I believe Halloween is similar, a minimum of in North America, you recognize, just like the leaves are turning colour, it is getting somewhat bit colder, pumpkins begin showing, there’s like Halloween events. After which on TV, you get particular episodes of all of the TV exhibits, like “The Simpsons” does the “Treehouse of Horror” specials yearly. I believe they’re on their thirty second or thirty fourth version of it now?

Dave Cortez 02:26

Yeah, I completely agree. just like the build-up idea positively is one thing you’re feeling in October, and tv and horror film marathons are what it is all about, proper?

Shaun McKenna 02:34

Completely, completely. Truly, that results in an apparent query. See in the event you get this reference too, do you want scary films?

Dave Cortez 2:42

And I do not get the reference … the place’s it from? The place’s it from?

Shaun McKenna 02:57

It’s from “Scream.”

Dave Cortez 02:58

OK, so yeah, as you may inform, that in all probability betrays the reply I am about to provide you. So yeah, I did say I wish to get spooked out. So for positive, every so often I hunt down horror films. However I am probably not into the pulpy stuff, you recognize, “Youngsters of the Corn” or “Creature from the Black Lagoon,” you recognize, however for some motive, pagan cult films creep me out. Like there was a Netflix Authentic referred to as “The Ritual,” and I like, could not sleep. So yeah, I imply, it is positively one thing that is in my media food plan, however I would not say I am a horror buff. Which, Shaun, you sort of are!

Shaun McKenna 03:27

Yeah, I sort of am, yeah, it is bizarre. I truly don’t love gore. However I do like horror films. And I do like the truth that horror films sort of say lots in regards to the state of the world. So typically you may watch a horror film and you recognize precisely the period you are in. And it sort of exhibits you indicators of like, what it is wish to dwell in that period. Proper? However yeah, it is it is I actually like horror films. For that motive. I like truly studied them in college, too, so. However one query for you. Have you ever seen many Japanese horror films?

Dave Cortez 03:59

Sure, so I will be trustworthy, I have not seen many. I do know I noticed “The Ring” one time a few years in the past, and I can’t inform you the plot apart from lady with creepy hair and a few sort of videotape, proper? Yeah.

Shaun McKenna 04:11

Effectively, in the event you’re seeking to get into Japanese horror, then I need to suggest some articles that our movie critic Mark Schilling has written up. The primary place to start out one thing that he wrote for us in 2018 was titled, “The ghosts that had been haunting cinema-goers in Japan for over a century.” And it is a actual deep dive into the historical past of horror movies in Japan. He begins off by sort of, you recognize, like, name-checking the favored stuff, this could be the J-horror increase that occurred in Japan between like 1998 and perhaps like 2002, but it surely truly occurs somewhat bit later abroad as a result of all these movies had been being remade. However yeah, he factors out that this is rather like a blip in the entire, you recognize, like lineage of horror films in Japan. So lots of these items relies on kaidan, which is ghost tales in Japanese. They typically cope with a vengeful feminine ghost. One thing that tells you about society. However I acquired a query for you. When do you suppose the primary Japanese horror movie got here out?

Dave Cortez 05:13

Oh gosh, after I suppose black and white, I believe the ’30s … 1933?

Shaun McKenna 05:18

So that is unbelievable, like that is nearly unbelievable. Mark did his analysis, he discovered a movie referred to as “Shinin no Sosei,” which is translated as “Resurrection of a Corpse,” after which there’s one other movie referred to as “Bake Jizo,” which is translated as “Jizo the Spook,” each from 1898.

Dave Cortez 05:37

Whoa, are they silent movies then?

Shaun McKenna 05:41

Yeah, the early days of cinema — bounce scares had been lots completely different again then. Then the opposite movie that he talked about is definitely referred to as “Botan Doro,” “The Story of the Peony Lantern,” and that comes from 1910. It is a couple of younger man who falls in love with the gorgeous Otsuyu, who’s later revealed to be a ghost and regardless of dire warnings, that is what Mark’s written, “he quickly joins her on the opposite facet.” So Otsuyu is considered one of three feminine ghosts which are sort of known as sandai yūrei, which interprets as “the massive three ghosts.” The others are Okiku after which you have got Oiwa. Okiku, is sort of a servant lady who finally ends up on the backside of a nicely after a dish goes lacking after which she sort of haunts the place the place she lived, the citadel the place she lived. Oiwa is a loyal spouse who’s betrayed and poisoned and at last killed by her dishonest samurai husband. And these are the sort of inspirations for individuals like Sadako in “The Ring.” These sorts of like if you consider Japanese horror you consider, you recognize the lady with the hair in entrance of her face and sort of like creepy and pale

Dave Cortez 06:53

Type of like a hell hath no fury, sort of revenge.

Shaun McKenna 06:56

Yeah, yeah. However yeah, this text by Mark simply goes deep into the historical past. I will not learn all of it right here, but it surely’s positively price a learn sort of within the run as much as Halloween.

Dave Cortez 07:07

Effectively, that positively appears like a superb learn. I even have introduced one other Mark Schilling hit about horror movies, which is from 2020, titled, “10 days of J-horror: from humorous frights to shock and gore.”

Shaun McKenna 07:20

OK, I bear in mind this one.

Dave Cortez 07:23

Yeah, it is sort of an fascinating invitation that Mark provides to the reader to take a 10-day problem to observe one horror flick an evening that progressively will get scarier and scarier from Oct. 22 all the best way up till Halloween. So I am simply gonna undergo this with you so you may sort of see how we sort of construct as much as it. So day one begins with a film referred to as “One Lower of the Useless,” which is definitely a zombie comedy. So sort of becoming, good mild starting.

Shaun McKenna 08:01

Yeah, so that is truly a movie by Shinichiro Ueda. And I bear in mind when this got here out, it was like a giant hit at festivals when it got here out. I believe it was an actual shock that it was so fashionable. I attempted watching it on Netflix, however I could not get the subtitles for it, as a result of I am watching Japanese Netflix. But when you could find it, I believe it is positively price a watch.

Dave Cortez 08:22

Effectively, that is a bummer. So hopefully do not use Netflix in the event you’re attempting to do that 10-day Problem. However shifting on, day two is a 1964 movie referred to as “Kwaidan,” which relies on tales by Lafcadio Hearn, so for all of you Japanese Research majors on the market, it is best to positively examine that one out. Now day three, it is a movie referred to as “The Ghost Story of Yotsuya” from 1954, day 4 is a movie referred to as “Onibaba” in 1964, which truly I believe I’ve seen in a university movie class? I bear in mind it being sort of well-known for being in type of a small setting and creepy for that motive. Day 5 although, is the place we get the favored names.

Shaun McKenna 09:02

The hits.

Dave Cortez 09:03

The hits. Day 5 is “The Ring,” day six is “The Grudge” — “Ju-on” in Japanese — and day seven is “Darkish Water.”

Shaun McKenna 09:27

OK, “Darkish Water” is fascinating. I truly noticed the American remake of that, it starred Jennifer Connelly. It was a superb film. It was sort of, like, creepy, and I bear in mind it being considerably unhappy, as lots of ghost tales are, they typically, ghost tales typically cope with sort of like remorse. So yeah, that is truly a very good advice, I believe.

Dave Cortez 09:48

OK, nicely, Shaun has made it as much as day seven figuring out that he likes darkish water however I do not suppose Shaun could make it previous day seven.

Shaun McKenna 09:55

No, I don’t like gore. And I am sort of feeling that we change into gore from right here.

Dave Cortez 10:00

For positive, Mark positively leans into the door on day eight, 9 and 10. That is the place it will get squeamish for positive. So day eight is a movie referred to as “Pulse,” and so Mark writes “suppose social media with mine rotting demise dealing memes because the ghosts invade the world of the residing within the horrific different universe.”

Shaun McKenna 10:17

Can I haz homicide?

Dave Cortez 10:20

Precisely. Now day 9 is certainly the place I faucet out. It is a well-known movie in the event you’re a horror buff referred to as “Audition,” 1999. Inform us why you’re tapping out, Shaun.

Shaun McKenna 10:30

Each time, you recognize, I see, in the event you put Japanese horror into Google and also you get a picture search, “Audition” all the time comes up with, like, a syringe approach too near somebody’s face. And it is similar to the needles. Yeah, that is nope. I’m out.

Dave Cortez 10:43

That is a nope for me, too. So lastly we come as much as Halloween, day 10, and Mark suggests a movie referred to as “Tetsuo the Iron Man” from 1989, which is sort of a black-and-white, steampunky gore bonanza, which Mark calls “a frontal assault on style conventions and sanity itself.”

Shaun McKenna 11:02

Wow, that sounds lots like ingesting in Shibuya, truly.

Dave Cortez 11:06

Which you may additionally do on Halloween?

Shaun McKenna 11:08

Which you should not do. You shouldn’t do, not this yr.

Dave Cortez 11:12

So yeah, take the 10-day problem and see how far you guys get.

Shaun McKenna 11:16

Yeah, I believe it’s a actually good concept. It is actually cool to sort of have the ability to uncover, you recognize, what makes one other tradition afraid. So we will probably be again after a fast break and we can have Oscar Boyd talking to Theresa Matsuura of “Uncanny Japan,” stick round.

Oscar Boyd 11:43

Thersa Matsuura, welcome to the podcast.

Thersa Matsuura 11:45

Thanks. Thanks a lot for having me.

Oscar Boyd 11:47

So Japan has a protracted historical past of ghost tales, they usually’ve fascinated many writers who’ve lived in visited Japan. Japanese ghost tales had been one of many favourite topics of writers akin to Lafcadio Hearn, he launched lots of Japan’s ghost tales in translation in his ebook “Kwadan” in 1904. Extra not too long ago, Anthony Bourdain put out a Japanese ghost-themed recipe ebook in 2018. And lots of of your personal tales and podcasts are influenced by Japanese horror tales. So what’s it in regards to the Japanese supernatural and ghost tales that first attracted you to them?

Thersa Matsuura 12:23

So, after I first got here to Japan was again in 1990. So that is like pre web. I got here, I studied for a pair years, determined to stay round, acquired married, moved to this smallish city. And I used to be thrown into life with my mom in legislation, who was very superstitious, and likewise truly the city the place I dwell is Lafcadio Hearn’s, he used to spend so much of time right here. And so it is all the time sort of buzzing round me. I’ve acquired this concept that within the West, we sort of have this line that separates the opposite world that, you recognize, after we die, after which this world the place we’re alive. However in Japan, it sort of, there’s probably not a line, like my mom in legislation would discuss spirits, or, “oh, I’ve a clingy spirit on my again right now.” And it was simply very thoughts blowing. So once more, no web. So I’d go to the library, and I simply examine these items like, “What’s she speaking about? What does all this imply?” And from there it was, “I’ve acquired to introduce this to different individuals, as a result of it is so great and unusual.”

Oscar Boyd 13:29

What did your mom know imply when she mentioned you are sticky or that she’s acquired a clingy ghosts caught to her again or no matter? What was she speaking about?

Thersa Matsuura 13:37

What’s she speaking about? Precisely? That is what I believed. So she taught me that some persons are extra sticky than different individuals. I am a really sticky individual. Evidently, she’s not a lot. There’s ghosts in every single place. There’s spirits, and there is good ones and there is dangerous ones, and sticky individuals will go locations they usually’ll get these ghosts on them. They will deliver sickness otherwise you’ll have nightmares, or one thing will occur due to that. So she was satisfied that I had all these ghosts on me. And at one level, she truly…

Oscar Boyd 14:11

Was that information to you? On the time?

Thersa Matsuura 14:16

On the time I believed, “Oh, that is cool. I am like, I am particular. I’ve ghosts.” However then the extra she talked about it, the extra it wasn’t a superb factor. It’s important to eliminate these issues. She’s very superstitious. So if something dangerous would occur, it might be me, proper? It is like, “Oh, it is as a result of Terry’s sticky that Grandpa acquired sick,” or one thing, and I used to be like “Oh, wait a minute. That is not honest.” And likewise I used to be so alone on the time, I needed to cope with this, and that’s why I do the analysis. And I sort of needed to write the tales simply to get it out. So, even in my neighborhood on the time, we had all these aged individuals residing round they usually all had their tales and I learn lots of tales about them to sort of, what’s it referred to as, exorcize these these dangerous emotions, not dangerous emotions, however you make sense of issues, I assume.

Oscar Boyd 15:02

So it is a fairly robust induction to the world of Japanese ghost tales by the sounds of it.

Thersa Matsuura 15:06

It is gotten higher.

Oscar Boyd 15:08

I am glad to listen to it. So Japan has a protracted historical past of ghost tales in literature and in folklore. However is there any actual indication of when ghost tales which are being advised in Japan?

Thersa Matsuura 15:19

To me ghosts, and any tradition, it’s simply sort of like from the start of time, like once we began telling tales like that simply was a pure … particularly in Japan. The extra I examine previous Japan, and the andon, the oil lamps that they had, they usually have these paper doorways and and shadows, and simply how darkish every thing was. Just like the paper doorways, the shoji paper door, they get holes in them that simply occurs naturally, somebody throws one thing, there is a gap in it, and it is torn, after which at evening, you have got the shadows, after which there’s truly a ghost and their eyes, they usually look via the holes at evening. And I simply thought it would be really easy to think about, proper? You realize, it is darkish, you recognize, it is chilly, you are alone, you bought these little flickering lamps, and also you look over, and perhaps any person did look in or no matter, however they’ve all these… I believe it was only a approach, I believe, to make sense of the world round them, like issues had been taking place they usually could not clarify them. So it might be a ghost. Oh, your leg hurts? There you go. It is a ghost. You realize, you must clarify one thing a way? Not less than. I believe so.

Oscar Boyd 16:22

In response to the mythology, then, how do ghosts in Japan truly come into being? Is it the identical idea of a trapped soul that by no means fairly leaves Earth for no matter motive?

Thersa Matsuura 16:35

Yeah, it feels the identical that approach. An individual passes on and for some motive or one other, they do not make it to the opposite facet. The funeral providers listed below are very ritualistic, there’s lots of issues that must be executed earlier than the funeral, throughout the funeral, after the funeral — days after, months after, a yr after — you must maintain doing these items. You’ve butsudan altars in the home, and once more, you do choices, normally daily, particularly on particular events, like Obon, or New Years. So yeah, there is a presence there, somebody passes away, their soul would not go, you must sort of maintain them on the opposite facet. If there may be some sort of anger or jealousy or wrathfulness or one thing, then the soul will keep on this facet, and like hang around and both get its vengeance or discover somebody to stay to or some are supposed to only stick with spots they usually’ll simply be there perpetually and ever till they notice they’re lifeless.

Oscar Boyd 17:29

So is that this all rooted in Buddhist custom and Buddhism then?

Thersa Matsuura 17:32

Buddhism, but additionally earlier than Buddhism acquired right here, as a result of Buddhism got here in from China later. There’s lots of overlap, however there’s Buddhism, there may be additionally the Shintoism, they usually even have their factor with spirits. Every part has a spirit, so Shintoism is, you recognize, animistic — every thing, rocks, bushes, rivers, after all individuals, animals, all of us have souls. And the identical factor you recognize, they do rituals to appease the soul. So it is sort of a complete combine collectively. Japan has such a protracted historical past, it is beautiful how that occurs. It is simply this massive potpourri of traditions and ideas and beliefs that come out.

Oscar Boyd 18:13

The sort of generic phrase for ghost in Japanese is yūrei​, which interprets to dim spirit or faint spirit, however there are literally many several types of ghost Japanese tales proper akin to shugorei, hyōrei, onryō​, so what are the variations between these kinds of ghosts?

Thersa Matsuura 18:31

Sure, so shugorei can be like a defending, like a guardian spirit spirit. So there’s the great ghost, there’s there’s animal ghosts. There’s ghosts which are linked to sure locations, native tail. Close to my home, there is a mountain cross, a woman was crossing, I assume a younger woman was crossing the street in the course of the evening, acquired hit by a automotive. Her spirit saved coming again, evidently, there was all the time flowers on the market. Lastly, her dad and mom spent only a crap ton of cash, they constructed this bridge over it, there’s nothing there. It is like there’s completely no motive for the rear bridge. However they constructed this overpass. And to at the present time, you recognize, you go at a sure hour and you’ll see her strolling throughout the bridge and stuff. So these ghosts, jibakurei, they really keep to the place so it’s going to be a waterfall, no matter, a tunnel. After which there’s the onryō​, that are vengeful, they usually died offended, and in a horrible approach. They arrive again to get their revenge. And so they’re cool as a result of it all the time looks like ghosts actually cannot do a lot, they simply sort of spook you they usually transfer by, however these even have the ability to not directly trigger a demise. There’s Oiwa, there may be Okiku of the 9 plates. There’s three massive ones in Japan (onryō​). They’re all sort of onryō​, vengeful spirits that come again and actual their revenge.

Oscar Boyd 19:59

And it’s these tales of onryō​, these vengeful spirits, which have influenced lots of Japanese horror movies in characters like Sadako from “The Ring” and Kayako in “The Grudge,” and these tales, tales like “The Ring” and “The Grudge” designed to scare the residing shit out of you. However of the older ghost tales you’ve got translated and studied, do they are usually purely designed to scare or is there a extra ethical aspect to them? Type of horror parables?

Thersa Matsuura 20:28

I believe each. However there does appear to be lots of moralistic tales. In all probability one of many first ones I heard about, or noticed on TV, a minimum of that previous film, was “Yotsuya Kaidan,” Oiwa. She’s this girl and the poor factor, you recognize, she’s been betrayed, she’s been cheated on, she’s poisoned, she’s dies and naturally she comes again and will get revenge. However completely an ethical tail. This this man is simply horrible to her and the individuals round him who had been horrible to her get there’s in the long run. So there’s fairly just a few like that. Even “The Ring,” proper? A more recent tail but it surely’s sort of based mostly on that previous, “this poor girl was thrown down a nicely and look what she did.”

Oscar Boyd 21:18

Yeah, fairly the mess. Do you have got a favourite ghost story then?

Thersa Matsuura 21:24

Perhaps it might be Oiwa? Simply because the extra I’ve studied her, there is a noh model, there’s a kabuki model, dozens of flicks about “Yotsuya Kaidan.” And so they’re all somewhat bit completely different. However the preliminary, the bones of the story are so good you can change issues and it nonetheless holds up. It is nonetheless actually scary. And even to at the present time, she’s at two shrines in Tokyo and I went to each of them and lots of actors go there and provides choices. So that you go there and there is all these flowers and sake and all these items to her. However even then, it says in the event you go there with a flippin coronary heart, like simply sort of out of enjoyable, that you’ll be cursed. Proper? So even right now, it is like “OK, I am gonna deliver a suggestion. And I am not going. As an informal bystander.” I am actually sort of fascinated with that. However I like that despite the fact that that story is so previous. And it was in all probability based mostly on an actual individual, is what they are saying, it is modified via time, it is hasn’t been any weaker. And even right now, it is sort of you continue to simply don’t discuss her, as a result of yeah, she would not prefer it and he or she’ll come again and are available after you.

Oscar Boyd 22:38

It appears like there’s an actual continued custom of believing in ghosts and different superstitions in Japan. It isn’t one thing that is utterly pale away as individuals have moved to the cities and away from the countryside.

Thersa Matsuura 22:50

I actually suppose so. Although I have not had TV in a number of years now, I simply bear in mind all of the TV exhibits at evening, individuals happening saying, “I took this image and there is one thing in it,” our video. Lots of people simply love that stuff, and there is all the time new ones popping out — city myths sort of based mostly on ghostly issues. There’s nonetheless these which are being thought up. Earlier than after I used to show, there have been these teenage ladies that go, “There’s this new factor that pops up in your pc and this ghost goes to come back,” and I’m like, “That is sensible.” Or hitori kakurenbo it is a sort of a ritual that you just do if you’re alone at that home with a bear but it surely’s terrifying these youngsters thought it up they usually do it I am like, “These nii-chan,” or no matter. And so they do it dwell so it is over the web but it surely’s so spooky as a result of you may’t see any person or they’ve their digicam and it is in a darkish room you go, “Wait, I see one thing,” so it is sort of humorous the way it’s simply developed, but it surely’s nonetheless, they’re only a scary these tales in these tales and the way great how good these youngsters are at making them up and making them fairly good tales. Nonetheless round for positive. So stick round for positive

Oscar Boyd 23:59

There is a semihaunted expression and also you eyes.

Thersa Matsuura 24:01

The primary time the primary time I learn the one in regards to the bears, like enjoying hiding conceal and search by your self, I used to be studying it at evening and I used to be simply going via the chat and “oh this occurred, this occurred” after which you recognize you are alleged to deliver one thing and the ghost is meant to come back discover you or one thing and all these youngsters are doing it they usually’re speaking and studying and one says, “Oh my god, I forgot the sake.” You’re alleged to have some sake and spit it out of your mouth however this one individual has forgotten the sake, and everyone seems to be frightened about this one lady within the closet and one says, “I hear one thing!” And these she’s gone, she’s off the chat and also you’re like, “What occurred to this lady?” OK, they’re enjoying a recreation however, that’s sensible that’s such a superb story. And it nonetheless haunts me to at the present time. Perhaps she acquired eaten? And yeah, ghosts nonetheless work right now.

Oscar Boyd 25:00

For the second half of this episode, we’ll characteristic a narrative by Thersa Metsuura. Her retelling of one of the crucial fashionable of Japan’s ghost tales, “Okiku and the 9 Plates.” This story is claimed to have taken place at Himeji Citadel in Hyogo Prefecture, considered one of Japan’s most well-known vacationer landmarks, a UNESCO heritage website, and the place you may nonetheless see Okiku’s nicely. This story additionally impressed the traditional Japanese horror movie “Ringu” remade as “The Ring” in 2002. I will be again on the finish of the story, however for now tuck up tight, flip off the lights and revel in Thersa’s story.

Shaun McKenna 40:39

That was Thersa Matsuura, studying the story of “Okiku and the 9 Plates,” which was first advised to us again in October 2020. Take a look at extra of Thersa’s ghost tales, city legends and different quirky tales about Japanese folklore on her uncanny Japan podcast and that uncannyjapan.com If you would like your tales a bit extra sci-fi, she additionally hosts the uncanny robotic podcast with Wealthy Pav. The location additionally has a pre-order hyperlink to her “Ebook of Japanese Folklore,” which is ready to come back out subsequent yr.

Dave Cortez 41:07

Dude. Thersa is an empire.

Shaun McKenna 41:11

We’ll be again subsequent week with our personal new episodes of Deep Dive from The Japan Occasions. And till then, thanks very a lot to producer Dave Cortez for becoming a member of me on the high of the episode.

Dave Cortez 41:18

My pleasure, Shaun, thanks for having me.

Shaun McKenna 41:21

And because of Oscar Boyd and LLLL for offering the music and till subsequent time, I am Shaun McKenna. Dave, do you need to do the honors?

Dave Cortez 41:28

Podtsukaresama!